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Old 08-31-2008, 02:08 AM   #1
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Creationism: Should it be taught in schools?

With McCain's nomination of Sarah Palin, 2-year Governor of Alaska, he has opened a whole new can of worms: creationism.

Palin, an evangelical Christian, is a known creationist (someone who believes in the story of Genesis in the Bible; ie that the world is only 6,000 years old, Adam and Eve were real, etc.) and has suggesting teaching creation "science" in Alaskan schools.

And this leads me to my question for you, fellow forumites...
Do you think Creationist theory should be taught in schools?
If so, alongside evolution, or by itself?

Any discussion you want to bring up about creationism or evolution is also welcome in this thread.

By now, my views should be obvious...Creationism is not science and therfore should be left to philosophy classes and Sunday school, not Biology.

What do you think?
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Old 08-31-2008, 02:25 AM   #2
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Creationism should be taught alongside evolution. Let the students decide. I though you were for free speech Ender. Both should be talked about. All i hear about is Evolution and that we were apes....
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Old 08-31-2008, 02:48 AM   #3
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Religion & all that stuff don't belong in school. That belongs in their household & their church but I don't think Religion is going to help students get into college. So My answer is No.

What they need to learn is SCHOOL stuff. NOTHING else. Thats what school is for.
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Old 08-31-2008, 03:02 AM   #4
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I hope I can make sense out of this.

Anyways, I think it should be taught in schools, but not forcibly. I'm not talking about any Bible study shit or anything like that. What I think is that they should teach the concepts of it, like what it is and the core ideas and beliefs. That would interest me more than reading from the book of Ezekiel every day.

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Old 08-31-2008, 03:25 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanMi View Post
Creationism should be taught alongside evolution. Let the students decide. I though you were for free speech Ender. Both should be talked about. All i hear about is Evolution and that we were apes....
Of course I am all about freedom of speech.
But perhaps more importantly, I also think church and state should be separated.
I went to Catholic schools where the two ideas were taught side by side. Personally I thought that should have just been dealt with in religion class.
But in public schools? No. That is not free speech. Would it be free speech if we were taught ALL religion's creation theories in public schools? How about the Mesapotamian beliefs that the world was woven by the gods into a big basket, or the Buddhist belief in reincarnation? How about the belief that the world was created by the Flying Spaghetti Mnster, when He graced us with His presence and touched us with His noodly appendage? Judeo/Christian beliefs are not the only ones under the sun.

As far as both sides being presented and talked about, I think it's the parent's responsibility to instill religious beliefs in their kids if they want, and school's duty to teach them SCIENTIFICALLY SOUND PRINCIPLES, not hokum.
And look at the scientific "facts" that support the creation theory...

-The world is only 6000 years old, and all scientists are wrong when they say it is 6 billion years old (give or take) due to carbon dating.
-All fossil records, even dinosaurs, are fake. Put there by God to make the world look older than it actually is. (and the purpose of that is...?)
-The entire human population was started with just Adam and Eve, and then was wiped out with the exception of Noah and his daughters by the great flood, and is now the booming population of an (apparently) inbred 6 billion people.
-100% of the scientific community accepts evolution as the most likely origin theory.

Oh yeah, definitely. This should be given at least a semester to study in biology class...
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Old 08-31-2008, 03:28 AM   #6
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Quote:
As far as both sides being presented and talked about, I think it's the parent's responsibility to instill religious beliefs in their kids if they want, and school's duty to teach them SCIENTIFICALLY SOUND PRINCIPLES, not hokum.
And look at the scientific "facts" that support the creation theory...
Exactly my point Ender
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Old 08-31-2008, 06:20 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ender View Post
As far as both sides being presented and talked about, I think it's the parent's responsibility to instill religious beliefs in their kids if they want, and school's duty to teach them SCIENTIFICALLY SOUND PRINCIPLES, not hokum.
And look at the scientific "facts" that support the creation theory...

-The world is only 6000 years old, and all scientists are wrong when they say it is 6 billion years old (give or take) due to carbon dating.
-All fossil records, even dinosaurs, are fake. Put there by God to make the world look older than it actually is. (and the purpose of that is...?)
-The entire human population was started with just Adam and Eve, and then was wiped out with the exception of Noah and his daughters by the great flood, and is now the booming population of an (apparently) inbred 6 billion people.
-100% of the scientific community accepts evolution as the most likely origin theory.

Oh yeah, definitely. This should be given at least a semester to study in biology class...
You hit the nail on the freakn A head, with the blue bolded text
Marvman highlighted.

Yes. It's the family's responsiblity to instill religion in the children,
not the institute of higher learning....

But ya left out one exhibit of such form of teaching.....

Catholic, Mormon, and Baptist schools all seem to put
religion as part of their curiculum. It's even held in
a higher regard on some levels than biochemisty or history...

Marvman went to a Catholic Jesuit High School....
It was real strict when it came down to religious practices,
and illumination teachings. Yet, it wasn't such as being shoved
down our throats, were as we accepted it as a way of being
a student of such a high-class school. As you may or not know,
private schools based on certain religions, tend to be a
highly sought commodity in terms of student discipline
and advanced learning. Marvman being a Catholic himself,
accepted the teachings and subject matter. But his fellow
non-christians and non-catholics; such as muslims;
seemed to have a tough time grasping such notions
of religion being included in the school's curiculum and
academic standards....

So having said that....

Marvman will not comment on such actions the Republican VP candidate from Alaska, may want to introduce or pass onto.

But.........it kinda looks unreasonable to listen to such ramble
about Earth being only "such and such" years old. Without
paying attention to the evidence; scientific or not; being displayed.

Who knows....only god knows....

Nice thread there Ender.
Certainly brought memories of Marvman's bout with religion
at his HS. His worst Grade came from that course....89...

Rockn.
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Old 08-31-2008, 12:38 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukario View Post
I hope I can make sense out of this.

Anyways, I think it should be taught in schools, but not forcibly. I'm not talking about any Bible study shit or anything like that. What I think is that they should teach the concepts of it, like what it is and the core ideas and beliefs. That would interest me more than reading from the book of Ezekiel every day.

Lukario
I agree with what you said Luk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ender View Post
Of course I am all about freedom of speech.
But perhaps more importantly, I also think church and state should be separated.
I went to Catholic schools where the two ideas were taught side by side. Personally I thought that should have just been dealt with in religion class.
But in public schools? No. That is not free speech. Would it be free speech if we were taught ALL religion's creation theories in public schools? How about the Mesapotamian beliefs that the world was woven by the gods into a big basket, or the Buddhist belief in reincarnation? How about the belief that the world was created by the Flying Spaghetti Mnster, when He graced us with His presence and touched us with His noodly appendage? Judeo/Christian beliefs are not the only ones under the sun.

As far as both sides being presented and talked about, I think it's the parent's responsibility to instill religious beliefs in their kids if they want, and school's duty to teach them SCIENTIFICALLY SOUND PRINCIPLES, not hokum.
And look at the scientific "facts" that support the creation theory...

-The world is only 6000 years old, and all scientists are wrong when they say it is 6 billion years old (give or take) due to carbon dating.
-All fossil records, even dinosaurs, are fake. Put there by God to make the world look older than it actually is. (and the purpose of that is...?)
-The entire human population was started with just Adam and Eve, and then was wiped out with the exception of Noah and his daughters by the great flood, and is now the booming population of an (apparently) inbred 6 billion people.
-100% of the scientific community accepts evolution as the most likely origin theory.

Oh yeah, definitely. This should be given at least a semester to study in biology class...
I Learned all about the different religions in my World History Class. But the thing is, i never heard about creationism. I guess that wasnt on the list....
I never learned any of that stuff cause i dont go to church. But hearing Evolution! Evolution! Evolution! all the time, isnt that fair...
Now you may think that creationism is a really dumb thing to believe in. (which in your facts, you made anyone who believes in it dumb) which is ok, thats your opinion.
But is believing that we came from fish and apes any smarter...., yeah, i thought so. It dosen't make much sense either way you look at it.
Both sound...hard to believe, but i should have the right to learn about alot of different beliefs, and it should be up to ME to decide which one.

and about you comment saying that judeo/christian beliefs arnt the only beliefs under the sun, then neither is Evolution.
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Old 08-31-2008, 04:18 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanMi View Post
I Learned all about the different religions in my World History Class. But the thing is, i never heard about creationism. I guess that wasnt on the list....
I never learned any of that stuff cause i dont go to church. But hearing Evolution! Evolution! Evolution! all the time, isnt that fair...
Now you may think that creationism is a really dumb thing to believe in. (which in your facts, you made anyone who believes in it dumb) which is ok, thats your opinion.
But is believing that we came from fish and apes any smarter...., yeah, i thought so. It dosen't make much sense either way you look at it.
Both sound...hard to believe, but i should have the right to learn about alot of different beliefs, and it should be up to ME to decide which one.

and about you comment saying that judeo/christian beliefs arnt the only beliefs under the sun, then neither is Evolution.
What people don't realize, I think, is that the Egyptians, Sumerians, Mesopotamians, and on and on, ALL have older histories, and consequently, origin stories than Judaism. Maybe that's why they would be taught in a World History class instead of Judaism...not solely because of their religions, but because they were some of the founding societies on this planet (if you believe history, and archeology and other scientific garbage)
If you never learned that man was created in a garden that doesn't exist and were tricked into eating fruit by a talking snake, and THAT's why childbirth hurts (WTF?) then your parents should have taken you to church. That's what mine did. I sat through that fairy tale hour every Sunday until I reached the age of reason...about thirteen. Then I stopped going. Trust me, I went to Catholic schools til Sophomore year...I'm not just ranting to rant. If parents want to instill beliefs in their children, then so be it. I don't necessarily agree with it, but that should be everyone's freedom. But when you take a scientifically unsound "theory" and put it in a public schools science course, then you're forcing those beliefs on other parent's kids...

Ok, now onto evolution...
First off, what is one other equally accepted scientific theory about the origins of life that counters the evolutionary theory? You say evolution isn't the only theory under the sun...then what's another one? NOT a religion based one, either...
Evolution is a theory, yes. But so is gravity. Both are widely, even religiously accepted by the scientific community because of the soundness of their ideas.
If the only reason you have a problem with the widely accepted belief that we evolved from primates (not fish...I kinda wish I could live underwater, though ) then dude, get over it. If that somehow lessens the "miraculousness" of human life for you, knowing that millions of years ago we were a different species, then take into consideration this quote:

"Celebrate our arcitecture...stirring, beautiful, wondrous - in every sense of the word marvelous.
From so simple a beginning, endless forms most beautiful have been and will be
evolving.

-Charles Darwin - The Origin of Species
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Old 08-31-2008, 05:32 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanMi
I Learned all about the different religions in my World History Class. But the thing is, i never heard about creationism. I guess that wasnt on the list....
I never learned any of that stuff cause i dont go to church. But hearing Evolution! Evolution! Evolution! all the time, isnt that fair...
Now you may think that creationism is a really dumb thing to believe in. (which in your facts, you made anyone who believes in it dumb) which is ok, thats your opinion.
But is believing that we came from fish and apes any smarter...., yeah, i thought so. It dosen't make much sense either way you look at it.
Both sound...hard to believe, but i should have the right to learn about alot of different beliefs, and it should be up to ME to decide which one.

and about you comment saying that judeo/christian beliefs arnt the only beliefs under the sun, then neither is Evolution.
The theory that we came from fish may sound stupid, but I'll make this make more sense by telling something my aunt told me a long time ago: Back then I was really interested in science, but didn't believe in evolution. I was on my aunts computer looking at pictures of moons that orbit Saturn (Which are awesome BTW), when my aunt walked in we talked a bit, and eventually asked me if I believed in evolution. I said no, and she explained to me something along the lines of this (Not exactly what she said at all): "There was a monkey that had no reason to have a tail, because there were no tree's (Or whatever monkey's use their tails for), so slowly after a process that took thousands and thousands of years, the monkeys tail started to go away. Later the climate changed, and it was getting colder, so again after a slow period of time the monkey grew thick hair. This kept happening for new things it needed to adjust to." Now this is NOT exactly what she said at all, but what she was basically saying was that after a matter of time, we naturally learn new things, sometimes the creature may not be capable of evolving, sometimes they don't even need to change. I dunno, I'm not really good at debating stuff. It is possible that certain creatures, like say, the Neanderthals, weren't quite smart enough to evolve faster. For example, they actually charged head on with Mammoths with sharp things to try and kill it. But the pro magnums were ahead of the Neanderthals by a long shot, they threw things instead of f***ing charging a large Mammoth. Also people have found fossils and bones from tons of prehistoric creatures.

Sorry for rambling on, I'll just say what I always say: Science, once found out, can explain anything.

Once more, I am not the type for arguing things, especially if creationism should be taught in school. I say no, unless you go to a religious school, then there is a reason for it.
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