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Old 05-19-2009, 10:55 PM   #1
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Communism Today

So I was browsing this website today, and I saw a news thread about how communism is rising in Japan. Supposedly there are thousands of people joining Japan's communist party every day. At least that is what I heard from somebody.

So, what I ask you is do you think that there should be communism still being used today?

I think that no, communism is obsolete, done, over with. Yet I still see countries such as North Korea, Cuba, and China using that system. Well if you noticed at all, none of them are really doing too well. Especially North Korea and Cuba (at least economic wise). Finally, keep this in mind this: Imagine you went through 8 years of studying hard in a University to earn a masters degree, but to end up getting the same amount of pay as the janitor outside your building. Of course, you could say "well if you just want more money, then you're a greedy person". But no, why should you work for the same amount of money as some slacker from your high school days? I mean of course some people to work to become a doctor to help people, but not everyone. So yeah, that's what I think (after doing some research).
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Old 05-19-2009, 11:05 PM   #2
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The original Idea behind Communism isn't that bad of an idea. You work for the community and everyone helps out and shares in the wealth on a small scale i think that it would work well.

What happens though is you get a greedy leader in and hordes everything and doesnt redistribute the wealth leaving two social classes The rich(very small group) and the poor (very large group) or people that dont do there part to help out and the system falls apart.

Do i think its obsolete tho.
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Old 05-20-2009, 02:57 AM   #3
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I agree with you Jekyll

However, I disagree with communism.

It is good that no one would be poor, always have some food for your family, a small shabby car to get around, but you couldn't complain about the Government which would lead to less improvements on their behalf as well as a constant economy.

With a GOOD democracy (Obviously that wouldn't happen because of all the stuff that happens nowadays) you'll have to earn to get a Mazda or a dream car, earn money and a life career, and get food for your family, and as well crit the Government and vote for Presidents. Constant money would flow through the economy which would be it stronger but if you look on the other hand, what about that kid in High School that didn't care? It so happens that there are millions of those kids that end up as homeless adults. There's the complication of a Democracy.

A Democracy states that "We are all equal and the same" but really what that is trying to say is Communist. There is really NO WAY that we could be the same even under a communist.


Let's work out our Democracy and help influence green thinking, eh?
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Old 05-30-2009, 12:52 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparticus View Post
The original Idea behind Communism isn't that bad of an idea. You work for the community and everyone helps out and shares in the wealth on a small scale i think that it would work well.

What happens though is you get a greedy leader in and hordes everything and doesnt redistribute the wealth leaving two social classes The rich(very small group) and the poor (very large group) or people that dont do there part to help out and the system falls apart.
Agreed. Communism as a theory is actually an excellent idea. Everybody works for the same, so that nobody is superior and everyone is equal. Great. Except, what Sparticus said happens, or, the people like the doctors and scientists get angry because they're being paid the same amount as people who work in call centres, and your whole system breaks down.
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Old 05-31-2009, 04:27 AM   #5
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There was once a man who said:

"All men are born equal"

Now this is of course not true. Some people can run faster, some people can think deeper, some people bake better cakes. But there is one way men are equal. In their rights.

Communism tried to capitalize on the "all men are born equal" philosophy. But there is one flaw with this. People who work harder (or do anything better than the norm) are treated like Buck the Tramp who lives in your grandma's trash can.

In a Capitalist system however, you live by the "survival of the fittest" philosophy. The better business gets a larger market share. The President is more important than the average Joe. And to be honest, I think that this type of Government is fairer than any radical ideals that Eastern revolutionaries try to come up with. The only problem is that in a majority over minority system, it is up to the majority to decide what to do with the minority.
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Old 05-31-2009, 05:11 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenon View Post
Agreed. Communism as a theory is actually an excellent idea. Everybody works for the same, so that nobody is superior and everyone is equal. Great. Except, what Sparticus said happens, or, the people like the doctors and scientists get angry because they're being paid the same amount as people who work in call centres, and your whole system breaks down.
The whole concept of everybody having equality and being paid the same is a great idea, and I believe that the world was communist, everything would be much nicer. If the scientists and doctors want to keep all of their money, they'll soon find out money doesn't bring happiness. They're all just conservative idiots how are paid way too much, and shouldn't have a higher status than anyone else.
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Old 05-31-2009, 01:23 PM   #7
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Communism leaves no real incentive to do better, which results in a stagnant economy. Let's say I get paid $25,000 a year to make chairs, and I can make 50,000 chairs a year. I have no competitors, so everyone who wants a chair will get one from me. There is no reason for me to make a better chair, or research a method where I can make chairs at a faster rate. Even if I did, I would make the same amount of money.

A free market economy works best.
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Old 05-31-2009, 08:20 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gameaddict View Post
The whole concept of everybody having equality and being paid the same is a great idea, and I believe that the world was communist, everything would be much nicer. If the scientists and doctors want to keep all of their money, they'll soon find out money doesn't bring happiness. They're all just conservative idiots how are paid way too much, and shouldn't have a higher status than anyone else.
Are you kidding me?

and they do have a higher status, because they WORKED HARD all their lives to be where they are in life.

Whats the point of going though all these medical classes and training to become a doctor, and get paid the same as a janitor? Thats why a Communist government fails.
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Old 05-31-2009, 08:54 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Jekyll View Post
I think that no, communism is obsolete, done, over with. Yet I still see countries such as North Korea, Cuba, and China using that system. Well if you noticed at all, none of them are really doing too well. Especially North Korea and Cuba (at least economic wise)....... So yeah, that's what I think (after doing some research).
China, that's a Super Power, and an clear and present threat to the USA than the middle east, at the moment.
They misconstrue their defence budget, and the exact amount of wealth they have......
China, is a great example of "modern communism" being able to adjust to the current climate, and keeping its citizens in check....
Their success has come at a price though......freedom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparticus View Post
The original Idea behind Communism isn't that bad of an idea. You work for the community and everyone helps out and shares in the wealth on a small scale i think that it would work well.

What happens though is you get a greedy leader in and hordes everything and doesnt redistribute the wealth leaving two social classes The rich(very small group) and the poor (very large group) or people that dont do there part to help out and the system falls apart.

Do i think its obsolete tho.
It is obsolete, but it can be modernized, and evolve into a higher form capable of fullfilling the ideals that it can set forth.
Just need a strong, and honest leader at the helm, whom is willing to sacrifice power for the well being of the nation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiskermush View Post
I agree with you Jekyll

However, I disagree with communism.

It is good that no one would be poor, always have some food for your family, a small shabby car to get around, but you couldn't complain about the Government which would lead to less improvements on their behalf as well as a constant economy.

With a GOOD democracy (Obviously that wouldn't happen because of all the stuff that happens nowadays) you'll have to earn to get a Mazda or a dream car, earn money and a life career, and get food for your family, and as well crit the Government and vote for Presidents. Constant money would flow through the economy which would be it stronger but if you look on the other hand, what about that kid in High School that didn't care? It so happens that there are millions of those kids that end up as homeless adults. There's the complication of a Democracy.

A Democracy states that "We are all equal and the same" but really what that is trying to say is Communist. There is really NO WAY that we could be the same even under a communist.


Let's work out our Democracy and help influence green thinking, eh?
Wait, first off, Mazda equals "Dream Car"???
LMAO. K.....

You make great points there,
but has the current format of democracy gone obsolete as well?
Democracy hasn't been as good as it may have been a 50-100 years ago....maybe we should go back to fundamentalism?
Heck how about a "republic"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenon View Post
Agreed. Communism as a theory is actually an excellent idea. Everybody works for the same, so that nobody is superior and everyone is equal. Great. Except, what Sparticus said happens, or, the people like the doctors and scientists get angry because they're being paid the same amount as people who work in call centres, and your whole system breaks down.
That's where humanity needs to get beyond off....Money....
caring about only one's self and immediate family.

If the human person can be more caring of their fellow man,
and at the same time, support and provide for their family....
why do you need to have luxury over self accomplishment,
and fullfilling your role as a good samaritan in this world?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gameaddict View Post
The whole concept of everybody having equality and being paid the same is a great idea, and I believe that the world was communist, everything would be much nicer. If the scientists and doctors want to keep all of their money, they'll soon find out money doesn't bring happiness. They're all just conservative idiots how are paid way too much, and shouldn't have a higher status than anyone else.
Exactly.
That needs to be driven home to our brothers and sisters whom are lost in this glitzy generation of fast money and high times.

Rockn.

Everybody on this thread has made great points....

So, if Communism and Democracy do not work; in their own right they may do; what form of government should the world embrace as the ideal way of getting things done, and in turn getting the most out of the populace?

Fundamentalism, Republic, Depotism, Monarchy, or something new?

Rockn.
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Old 07-06-2009, 01:58 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marvman3 View Post
So, if Communism and Democracy do not work; in their own right they may do; what form of government should the world embrace as the ideal way of getting things done, and in turn getting the most out of the populace?

Fundamentalism, Republic, Depotism, Monarchy, or something new?

Rockn.
None of them, albeit they are all perfect, but humanity is not. ANY system would be perfect if humanity were compatible with it, but because of how individual humanity is, and how similar it is not, no system is perfect.

Let me explain.

If each human was constructed in a particular fashion, then any system could be successful.
If humans were naturally altruistic and agreed on how altruism worked, anarchy could work.
If humans really were honest in terms of their rational self-interest, laissez-fair capitalism could work.
If humans didn't need incentive and actually did love work for the sake of work, then communism could work.
If humans didn't care about privacy, a surveillance society could work.
And so on.
The thing is, humans are so distinct from each other that any group of humans could each support any one of what I stated above.

I still fault the people who came up with the ideas because they don't see the reality that not all humans will concede to their system.
Communism cannot work because in order to make people work you have to force them, which contradicts a facet of communism.
Laissez fair capitalism cannot work because people will exploit the system and at that point you'll need the government to step in even further, violating a very important facet of laissez-fair capitalism
In order for any system to "work", you have to FORCE it to work, and most idealistic systems are against the idea of force.

Last edited by Zakku; 07-06-2009 at 03:32 AM.
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