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Old 08-30-2009, 05:07 AM   #1
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Pikachu Speed vs. Power

I recently got in a debate with Rin about who would win between Ike and Pikachu, a quick person and a powerful person. I say it can go either way but he says quick people always have the advantage. I wanna hear what other(more intelligent) people think.
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Old 08-30-2009, 07:31 AM   #2
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I say quick. Brawls slow as hell.
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Old 09-03-2009, 01:01 AM   #3
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How the heck did I miss this...Oh well, you know my thoughts on the issue. There's no point in being that powerful if you can't hit your target. I've always believed that, and I always will.

And it's true, being faster usually gives you the advantage, unless you're just godly powerful, which no one in SSBB is. Why do you think Meta Knight and Snake are abused so badly, along with Falco and others?

Exactly. 90% of the time, Speed is going to win over Power. The other 10% of the time usually has to do with someone either being broken, overpowered, or...

Being more skilled than the other person! (gasp)

I mentioned that in the other thread, but you seemed to of ignored it.

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Originally Posted by fa1c093
I wanna hear what other(more intelligent) people think.
You have no room to talk about intelligence. None at all.
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Old 09-03-2009, 02:57 AM   #4
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I've never been so disrespected in my life! Ill have you know i have a 4.3 G.P.A.
And i know all about video games and im good at them. VERY good at them. I happen to use Ike and my brother uses Ike and he is unstoppable. As in winning tournaments w/ Ike. And who misinformed you that Snake is fast??? He is average speed not fast. But if you have the proper skills to fight with a slow person then u can win. And there are a couple necessary skills that you need to fight with slow people such as patience and timing. And i dont use slow people so this is not really my argument. I use Fox and Falco but not because they're fast because, Falco is slow, but because i like Starfox on 64. But bottom line slow people can conquer over fast 47% of the time
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Old 09-03-2009, 03:11 AM   #5
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Falco isn't slow. Not compared to Ike, Bowser, DK, and the like. And I don't care one iota about your GPA at all.

You don't get it do you? If a fast character and a slow character with equally skilled players controlling them go at it, the slow character is at a decently sized disadvantage. Stop acting conceited, and just admit when you're wrong about something, it's making you look ridiculous.

I never said a slow person couldn't win, I said they were at a disadvantage, which any sensible person knows. I don't give a crap if you're insulted or not, know what you're talking about before you throw your words at me. Your so called skill doesn't mean anything to me.

That percentage is a load of crap you made up for the sake of trying to argue. Like I said, if the above criteria is what is met, the slower character is usually going to win...30% of the time? Maybe? That's more sensible anyways. It's not that close to 50/50.

Falco isn't slow. At all. What game are you playing? No one told me Snake was fast, but he has the most broken tilts in the game. Average > Slow, so that's not even a valid point you're trying to make.

To reiterate. Slow character being controlled by a good player and a fast character being controlled by a good player. Fast usually outdoes slow. This isn't just for SSBB, this is for most games in general. SSBB has more mechanics behind it than that, so using it as the sole focus is just ridiculous.

So...yeah, learn what you're talking about before throwing crap around at me.

Edit: Here's something fun for you to look at.

http://super-smash-bros.wikia.com/wiki/Tier_list

See Pikachu up there in A Tier? Yeah. See Ike at the bottom of the D Tier?

Enough said. That's all I need to say.

Last edited by Rin; 09-03-2009 at 03:27 AM.
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Old 09-03-2009, 03:44 AM   #6
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That tier is ridiculous it has all the good people in the b and c rank. The list of people who should be in a or s who aren't: Lucario, Toon Link, Luigi, Fox, Wolf, Captain Falcon, and especially Pit. Pit is all purpose speed, defense, decent amount of power. I understand why Ike is at the bottom but Pikachu is not all that good either he/she is just fast. People in tournaments just use the fastest people because brawl is not as fast as melee so speed is a big factor. But power still needs to be appreciated. Wolf has power, Luigi has power, Falco has power, and King Dedede has power and hes in the top. King Dedede is one of the slowest people in the game but people choose him in tournaments. So If King Dedede can win matches with his Brute strength alone, cause its all he has, than Ike can too and hes faster than King dedede
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Old 09-03-2009, 03:54 AM   #7
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Sorry, but the minute i read that first sentence, i knew you had no idea what you're talking about. Tiers aren't objective. They're created by tournament results, not personal opinion. You can't argue with results. At all. You can refute them all you want, but it makes you look like an idiot, just like the rest of that post did honestly, and I'll tell you why.

You are ignorant if you think King Dedede is slow. He's not up there because of his power, he's up there because he has a projectile, one of the best recoveries in the game, very fast moves, he's far faster than Ike could ever hope to be. He has a chain-grab, and oh yeah, he can kill at low percentages. Nothing I just said had anything to do with power at all did it? Exactly. King Dedede players don't use his brute strength. At all. It could net them a lucky kill, but chances are, they will edgeguard them to death to beat them.

Wolf is relatively weak, and is relatively slow on his attack delivery, along with bad end lag on a few of his moves. His best move is his Dsmash, and that's easy to avoid. Luigi is floaty as hell, with bad priority over other people, not to mention his projectile is insanely slow. Pit is light and has bad priority, not to mention he's very susceptible to ranged characters himself, despite being one. That list of so-called character that YOU think should be up there doesn't matter one single bit. Tier lists aren't ridiculous. All professional players follow them for a reason. They show a pattern of who is good, and who is not so good. They're developed over time, and change over time as the metagame changes. In 3 months, Pikachu could drop, Bowser could rise, and Snake could disappear, but as it stands now, that's the tier list, whether you like it or not.

Did it ever cross your mind that these characters are good because they have speed? And i don't just mean running speed, I mean attacking speed, lag times, and overall delivery. No one in the top 6 has bad speed. Even the King has good attack speed, and a slew of other things i already explained.

Brawl needing speed just proves my point further honestly. They turn to speed because the game is slower, meaning speed is more important to them than sheer power is. Who you think is good, and who actually is good seem to be two different worlds. Are you really going to say you're smarter than every tournament player on earth? Because if you do, you really are a fool. Continuing this is pointless, you're just running on your own personal opinion, while I've thrown facts in your face for 3 posts now.

Edit: It's 4 AM, I've pretty much made my case, I'm going to bed. Continue if you want, but there's no point really.

Last edited by Rin; 09-03-2009 at 04:04 AM.
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Old 09-03-2009, 04:46 AM   #8
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I am not saying that im smarter than tournament players or whatever but i am saying they have a peculiar choice of people. I use a variety of people in every game cause using the same person is boring, but i learn all the advantages and disadvantages of all the players and then i compare them. Unlike people in a tournament who just practice with one person out of 35 and cant fight with anbody else. So i know who is best to use against who and everybody has their strong points. So of course Ike is probably not the best choice to win a tournament but when playing with a group of friends you can size up their choices and then make your choice. And Falco is not that fast, besides his attacks. Luigi is semi-powerful and quick but yes he does stay in the air too long. Falcon is very powerful and quick and a good recovery. So hes an all around he should be in the top a or s. Pit definetely should be a or s. Not only is he semi-strong, hes quick, great defense, projectiles, and incredible recovery system.
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Old 09-03-2009, 10:08 AM   #9
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If players are equally skilled, the faster character wins more than 3/4 of the time. I use Samus and Ganon and find myself losing to faster characters often.
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Old 09-03-2009, 10:22 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fa1c093 View Post
I am not saying that im smarter than tournament players or whatever but i am saying they have a peculiar choice of people. I use a variety of people in every game cause using the same person is boring, but i learn all the advantages and disadvantages of all the players and then i compare them. Unlike people in a tournament who just practice with one person out of 35 and cant fight with anbody else. So i know who is best to use against who and everybody has their strong points. So of course Ike is probably not the best choice to win a tournament but when playing with a group of friends you can size up their choices and then make your choice. And Falco is not that fast, besides his attacks. Luigi is semi-powerful and quick but yes he does stay in the air too long. Falcon is very powerful and quick and a good recovery. So hes an all around he should be in the top a or s. Pit definetely should be a or s. Not only is he semi-strong, hes quick, great defense, projectiles, and incredible recovery system.
You pretty much just reiterated what you said earlier, with different characters. Plus, you aren't getting the point of a tier list being a scientific thing, and not based on your opinion. I'm not even going to bother continuing.
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