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Old 02-13-2011, 03:00 AM   #1
Brandyn
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Video Game Blog #2: The Brawl Roster/Represention/Character rants (this is long)

Now, everyone has their list of "should have been in" characters for Brawl. This blog isn't so much for who I wanted to be in, but a little more questioning why some of the characters that did make it in are in, as well as the representation of the franchises.

The thing is, Nintendo acts like they had to scrape the bottom of the bucket for characters to put in this game.
I mean, look how many Mario series characters we have. Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Yoshi, Wario, Donkey Kong, and Diddy Kong. Some people might count Mr. Game & Watch because in the Gameboy Color/Gameboy Advance renditions of the Game and Watch Gallery games, the remastered versions of the games use Mario characters. But to be fair, he doesn't really count since Game &Watch was before Mario. Still though, that's quite a bit of representation from the Mario series. Not to mention, there are assist trophies of Waluigi, Hammer Bro, and Lakitu, and the Mario universe has the most stages. I quite understand that this is because Mario is Nintendo's mascot and top franchise, but I mean compare that to F-Zero and Metroid who only have one playable character in Smash Bros.

Argument: "But Donkey Kong, Yoshi, and Wario are their own separate franchises. Donkey Kong Country, Yoshi's Island, and WarioLand/WarioWare, Inc. don't really count."

All of those franchises are still inside of the Mario universe. They all are spinoffs of Mario, so it's still the same. Although many consider Donkey Kong arcade in the Donkey Kong franchise, it's still within that universe. Now of course, Donkey Kong and Yoshi are two of the original 12 Smashers from Smash Bros 64, but to add Bowser, Peach, Diddy Kong, and all the Mario assist trophies, it would seem this universe was overrepresented compared to all the others.

Of course they try to shut up fans of F-Zero games by adding Samurai Goroh and Metroid assists but it's not the same. Well with Samus though, she is always alone in her games so I suppose that's suitable, but F-Zero? In the original F-Zero, there were only 4 playable racers (Captain Falcon, Samurai Goroh, Dr. Stewart, and Pico). In F-Zero X, there were now 30 racers including the original 4, and in GX, the same 30 racers were back plus Deathborn and the hidden unlockable racers from the arcade version, AX. Now out of 30 characters, Nintendo could have chosen a couple of them to help Captain Falcon represent F-Zero, which is probably my favorite Nintendo franchise next to Zelda. Dr. Stewart probably wouldn't be much of a Brawler, but surely they could have thrown Samurai Goroh and Pico in as playable characters since they are apart of the original 4. And you know that by Goroh I mean as a playable character, not as a stupid assist trophy who just runs all over the place swinging his katana randomly like he's blind, and then leaping off the stage.

So if that's who I want in, who should these guys replace? Well, it's quite clear that ROB is purely fanservice, like Sonic to satisfy the wet dreams of SEGA fanboys. Mario Kart DS aside, ROB has never starred inside of a game (save for a couple cameos here and there like in the Port Town stage of F-Zero GX, and in microgames throughout WarioWare, Inc.

Jigglypuff

This next one you saw coming, but do we really need Jigglypuff? Now, I know full well of Jigglypuff's hidden talents and all, as well as her standing of being the best aerial fighter in the game by many accounts, but let's face it, who actually mains Jigglypuff? Not just use her from time to time or based on a special situation, I mean who is actually a serious Jigglypuff player on a daily basis? I know there are some out there, but for the most part she really doesn't have that many serious players of her. I'm pretty sure the only reason Nintendo hasn't given her the boot is because she was one of the original 12 smashers in Smash Bros 64, but I get a feeling that if she was gone, not too many people would seriously care. I know that Jigglypuff was meant as a joke character, but the joke is over, and at this point she is doing nothing more than sucking up a valuable spot that could be occupied by somebody better. Is one pink puffball not enough? I know that Jigglypuff and Kirby aren't really clones, but the vague feel is the same except Kirby is...better.

Lucas

I love the Mother series, but I feel that perhaps they could have chosen characters besides the main protagonists. Especially considering that both Ness and Lucas borrow tools and powers from their respective companions. In EarthBound/Mother 2, PK Fire is actually Paula's power, and PK Starstorm is Poo's power. In Mother 3, PK Freeze was Kumatora's move, and that Rope snake Lucas uses for grabs is Duster's. Lucas is a cool addition, but I would have preferred Poo....the character.

Arguement: "But Mother 3 was the most recent game before Brawl, so they needed a character a little more up to date."

I figure having New Pork City and Mother 3 trophies was fine. I prefer Poo. Instead of being a direct clone, he focuses more on hand to hand combat than PK techniques.

Sonic/Snake

Now, I honestly don't mind third party guests. I mean, why not? Hell, it may sound stupid but I'm hoping for Ryu from Street Fighter to make it in the next game. Sonic however....was just Nintendo caving in to Sega fanboy demands. I'm not really against Sonic for "being cheap" but in Brawl he's rather boring to play as. For all intents and purposes, all his B moves are the same thing. Now, in the Sonic games, Sonic doesn't have a huge variety of moves, so there wasn't much else they could have done, but seriously, I mean c'mon. Plus, what makes him cheap is that after he performs his Up B, he can still attack! He doesn't go into "helpless mode" like everyone else!
As with Snake, I love the Metal Gear franchise but have mixed feelings about Snake's presence in Super Smash Bros. He is fun to play as casually, but cheap to fight against. It's not so much his sneaky tactics and traps and camping that make him cheap (though that doesn't help) but it's how overpowered he is in close-quarters combat. Snake's tilts have to be the most broken in the game. They have just as much if not more power than his smash attacks....and no lag what-so-ever. On top of that, they have hitboxes far beyond Snake's actual limbs. Like Sonic, Snake can attack after his Up B. You can grab him out of the cypher to make him helpless, but that's easier said than done. There's a bit too much to say about him...

The point is that Nintendo definately had a bunch of other characters they could have used, but they acted desperate.
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Old 02-13-2011, 12:54 PM   #2
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I mean, look how many Mario series characters we have. Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Yoshi, Wario, Donkey Kong, and Diddy Kong. Some people might count Mr. Game & Watch because in the Gameboy Color/Gameboy Advance renditions of the Game and Watch Gallery games, the remastered versions of the games use Mario characters. But to be fair, he doesn't really count since Game &Watch was before Mario. Still though, that's quite a bit of representation from the Mario series. Not to mention, there are assist trophies of Waluigi, Hammer Bro, and Lakitu, and the Mario universe has the most stages. I quite understand that this is because Mario is Nintendo's mascot and top franchise, but I mean compare that to F-Zero and Metroid who only have one playable character in Smash Bros.

Argument: "But Donkey Kong, Yoshi, and Wario are their own separate franchises. Donkey Kong Country, Yoshi's Island, and WarioLand/WarioWare, Inc. don't really count."

All of those franchises are still inside of the Mario universe. They all are spinoffs of Mario, so it's still the same. Although many consider Donkey Kong arcade in the Donkey Kong franchise, it's still within that universe. Now of course, Donkey Kong and Yoshi are two of the original 12 Smashers from Smash Bros 64, but to add Bowser, Peach, Diddy Kong, and all the Mario assist trophies, it would seem this universe was overrepresented compared to all the others.
The Thing with that is that Mario is their flagship series, and using characters in the same universe, but not the same series(like Wario, Yoshi, and Donkey Kong) spreads out the possibilities, and there are also characters exclusive to the other series that they still could've put into the game(I'm still annoyed by the lack of Dixie Kong an King K. Rool
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Well with Samus though, she is always alone in her games so I suppose that's suitable
Ridley would like a word with you
Quote:
Of course they try to shut up fans of F-Zero games by adding Samurai Goroh and Metroid assists but it's not the same. Well with Samus though, she is always alone in her games so I suppose that's suitable, but F-Zero? In the original F-Zero, there were only 4 playable racers (Captain Falcon, Samurai Goroh, Dr. Stewart, and Pico). In F-Zero X, there were now 30 racers including the original 4, and in GX, the same 30 racers were back plus Deathborn and the hidden unlockable racers from the arcade version, AX. Now out of 30 characters, Nintendo could have chosen a couple of them to help Captain Falcon represent F-Zero, which is probably my favorite Nintendo franchise next to Zelda. Dr. Stewart probably wouldn't be much of a Brawler, but surely they could have thrown Samurai Goroh and Pico in as playable characters since they are apart of the original 4. And you know that by Goroh I mean as a playable character, not as a stupid assist trophy who just runs all over the place swinging his katana randomly like he's blind, and then leaping off the stage.
I mostly agree with this, except with the whole "Pico should get in because he is part of the original 4". You have to take into consideration popularity and importance of the characters in their series. Just because they are part of the original cast doesn't really guarantee them importance or popularity. It would seem more likely to see actually see Black Shadow than either Pico or Samurai Goroh, since he's arguably the main villain in the series(and don't give me the whole "but Wolf is Fox's rival and he got in instead of Andross) argument because Black Shadow would make more sense to include than Andross)

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So if that's who I want in, who should these guys replace? Well, it's quite clear that ROB is purely fanservice, like Sonic to satisfy the wet dreams of SEGA fanboys. Mario Kart DS aside, ROB has never starred inside of a game (save for a couple cameos here and there like in the Port Town stage of F-Zero GX, and in microgames throughout WarioWare, Inc.
That's because he's a WTF character, which means that people weren't expecting him to appear(just like Ness and Game&Watch) he was initially an accessory for the NES, but then he started to appear in games(like Mario Kart DS and F-Zero GX). ROB's inclusion actually makes me hope that if they make another Smash Bros. they could put a Gameboy(lol) or even someone even more ridiculous like Captain N or the King from those crappy CD-i Zelda games(or like my friend Omega says, Maybe even Sakurai himself)

Quote:
Jigglypuff

This next one you saw coming, but do we really need Jigglypuff? Now, I know full well of Jigglypuff's hidden talents and all, as well as her standing of being the best aerial fighter in the game by many accounts, but let's face it, who actually mains Jigglypuff? Not just use her from time to time or based on a special situation, I mean who is actually a serious Jigglypuff player on a daily basis? I know there are some out there, but for the most part she really doesn't have that many serious players of her. I'm pretty sure the only reason Nintendo hasn't given her the boot is because she was one of the original 12 smashers in Smash Bros 64, but I get a feeling that if she was gone, not too many people would seriously care. I know that Jigglypuff was meant as a joke character, but the joke is over, and at this point she is doing nothing more than sucking up a valuable spot that could be occupied by somebody better. Is one pink puffball not enough? I know that Jigglypuff and Kirby aren't really clones, but the vague feel is the same except Kirby is...better.
You just contradicted yourself *points at post about Pico*, if Pico should get in because he is part of the original four racers of F-Zero, then should't Jigglypuff get to stay. Again, you have to look at the popularity perspective, and Jigglypuff is supposedly still popular in Japan, so that explains why it's still in the game
I'd also like to point out that, Jigglypuff has an original moveset, so ditching her would be a complete waste(nods in shame at Sakurai for getting rid of Mewtwo)
Quote:
Lucas

I love the Mother series, but I feel that perhaps they could have chosen characters besides the main protagonists. Especially considering that both Ness and Lucas borrow tools and powers from their respective companions. In EarthBound/Mother 2, PK Fire is actually Paula's power, and PK Starstorm is Poo's power. In Mother 3, PK Freeze was Kumatora's move, and that Rope snake Lucas uses for grabs is Duster's. Lucas is a cool addition, but I would have preferred Poo....the character.
*Points at point above*, Lucas being included for the same reasons as above, plus, I'd also argue that Lucas is in it because he has the last game in the Mother timeline(if there is one)

Quote:
Arguement: "But Mother 3 was the most recent game before Brawl, so they needed a character a little more up to date."

I figure having New Pork City and Mother 3 trophies was fine. I prefer Poo. Instead of being a direct clone, he focuses more on hand to hand combat than PK techniques.
Even those(for me at least), there was a lot of demand for Masked Man(final villain in Mother 3), but I can also argue that Poo very well deserves a spot as well

Quote:
Sonic/Snake

Now, I honestly don't mind third party guests. I mean, why not? Hell, it may sound stupid but I'm hoping for Ryu from Street Fighter to make it in the next game. Sonic however....was just Nintendo caving in to Sega fanboy demands. I'm not really against Sonic for "being cheap" but in Brawl he's rather boring to play as. For all intents and purposes, all his B moves are the same thing. Now, in the Sonic games, Sonic doesn't have a huge variety of moves, so there wasn't much else they could have done, but seriously, I mean c'mon. Plus, what makes him cheap is that after he performs his Up B, he can still attack! He doesn't go into "helpless mode" like everyone else!
As with Snake, I love the Metal Gear franchise but have mixed feelings about Snake's presence in Super Smash Bros. He is fun to play as casually, but cheap to fight against. It's not so much his sneaky tactics and traps and camping that make him cheap (though that doesn't help) but it's how overpowered he is in close-quarters combat. Snake's tilts have to be the most broken in the game. They have just as much if not more power than his smash attacks....and no lag what-so-ever. On top of that, they have hitboxes far beyond Snake's actual limbs. Like Sonic, Snake can attack after his Up B. You can grab him out of the cypher to make him helpless, but that's easier said than done. There's a bit too much to say about him...
Again, taking them out would be a complete waste of characters because they have original movesets. The only way you can replace characters with original is if another character takes their moveset(like Mewtwo to Lucario.....And even that's not a good example). So far the only character they could replace is Snake in favor for someone like Leon S. Kennedy, and knowing Capcom, they'll most likely use Ryu or Megaman, so right now it's safe to say that Snake is here to stay(unless Sakurai, Konami, or Kojima says otherwise). As for Sonic, his inclusion was not only due to hype from Snake's inclusion, but as well as that random rumor about him being in Melee(that and the Mario/Soni Rivalry), and giving him the boot would likely cause a Holy War between Sonic fans and Nintendo, so he'll likely stay as well, plus I can't think of anyone who'd replace him. I'm fine with Sonic as long as they don't also add any of his lame friends(though I wouldn't mind Tails, Knux, and maybe
Amy)


Also just out of curiosity, what are you're thoughts on the representation of Zelda, Starfox, Pokemon, Kirby, and Fire Emblem(can't leave them out!), thoughts on the clones/semiclones, and the lack of certain franchises*coughgoldensuncough*?
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Old 02-13-2011, 12:59 PM   #3
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Over representation doesn't bother me, honestly. It's Smash bros. The more the merrier.
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Old 02-14-2011, 02:36 PM   #4
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As with Snake, I love the Metal Gear franchise but have mixed feelings about Snake's presence in Super Smash Bros. He is fun to play as casually, but cheap to fight against. It's not so much his sneaky tactics and traps and camping that make him cheap (though that doesn't help) but it's how overpowered he is in close-quarters combat.
big boss helps develope CQC
snake is clone of big boss
it makes sense.


also, brawl was already dual layer as it is, I doubt they had the space.. or even wanted to add any more fzero characters. It is a racing game after all. One is enough.
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Old 02-28-2011, 01:31 AM   #5
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the roster was fine >.>
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Old 03-01-2011, 03:46 PM   #6
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